Thank you for joining the Amberly Village forum. Your coming to this website shows that you care about your community. It's time for us to join together and make our community the envy of South Dekalb.
In your opinion, what are some of the problems in Amberly Village (ex. litter, noise, crime) and what are some ideas to solve these issues? Feel free to post any questions you may have as well.
Thursday, July 16, 2009
Friday, September 19, 2008
Dekalb County School System
What can we do as residents to take charge and fix the Dekalb County School System, especially on the south side?
Lithonia's bad rap...
Whenever I go to other areas of Atlanta, I hear and read about how great Kirkwood, East Atlanta, Oakhurst, Candler Park etc. is. (And I agree.) However, I also hear about the petty crime. Locking your doors, security systems, dogs, bums, crackheads, vagrants, break-ins, and the vigilance of the community. When I ride through these areas, while I like the charm, there is a fair amount of litter and such. Also, there are a number of vagrants, bums, and homeless. However, they are still touted as “the best places to be” and understandably so…
But in areas like 30058, there are virtually NO bums, homeless, or addicts roaming the streets. The litter is on par with any of the areas I previously mentioned with the exception of L5P (which has far more). I’ve lived for years with no security system or dog and I’ve left value merchandise in my car (not that that’s a smart thing to do anywhere) but nothing has happened. I even ordered the crime stats from Dekalb PD and APD only to find that the crime in these intown communities far outweighs that of unincorporated Lithonia. Yet on the site, people proclaim that Panola Rd north of I-20 is a crime-riddled haven for illegal activity that all should avoid and it is simply not the case.
The only major difference as far as I can tell (besides the abundance of 1960’s 1970’s and 1980’s (non-historic) homes, and a lack of trendy boutiques and stores, and a farther proximity to the city) is the fact that it has a predominantly African–American population filled with children and teens. I just assumed that people associated Blacks with dirt and crime and the gentrifying White areas with clean safety when the biggest disturbances I remember having in this old working class neighborhood off Marbut Rd. in years was kids playing basketball in the street. The occasional car passing blaring loud music and seeing the youngsters sag their pants (which I know is an eyesore). Yet our property values are low, businesses do not invest, and diverse populations don’t move here because of this stigma that it is a war zone, and that is completely false. In fact, it is a lot safer than all the intown communities I just mentioned.
What can be done about this stigma that Lithonia has and the “prejudice” that many of the posters have? Anything?
But in areas like 30058, there are virtually NO bums, homeless, or addicts roaming the streets. The litter is on par with any of the areas I previously mentioned with the exception of L5P (which has far more). I’ve lived for years with no security system or dog and I’ve left value merchandise in my car (not that that’s a smart thing to do anywhere) but nothing has happened. I even ordered the crime stats from Dekalb PD and APD only to find that the crime in these intown communities far outweighs that of unincorporated Lithonia. Yet on the site, people proclaim that Panola Rd north of I-20 is a crime-riddled haven for illegal activity that all should avoid and it is simply not the case.
The only major difference as far as I can tell (besides the abundance of 1960’s 1970’s and 1980’s (non-historic) homes, and a lack of trendy boutiques and stores, and a farther proximity to the city) is the fact that it has a predominantly African–American population filled with children and teens. I just assumed that people associated Blacks with dirt and crime and the gentrifying White areas with clean safety when the biggest disturbances I remember having in this old working class neighborhood off Marbut Rd. in years was kids playing basketball in the street. The occasional car passing blaring loud music and seeing the youngsters sag their pants (which I know is an eyesore). Yet our property values are low, businesses do not invest, and diverse populations don’t move here because of this stigma that it is a war zone, and that is completely false. In fact, it is a lot safer than all the intown communities I just mentioned.
What can be done about this stigma that Lithonia has and the “prejudice” that many of the posters have? Anything?
Larry Johnson Response (Part 2) Q&A
What is the current economic development vision? Who are some of the developers with whom you’ve had dialogue?
The property owners/developers with whom he is in contact is: Orkin – who owns the property adjacent to I20 and ‘in front of’ the Omega Center on Snapfinger; The Shopping Center Group who manages some of the shopping centers that would be prime sites for developments. The economic vision is for mixed use development which is why Commissioner Johnson has successfully pushed for and had adopted the I-20 Overlay District which extends along the I-20 Corridor and outward to include the commercial properties adjacent to I-20. What the overlay does is establish the standards for building design as well as specifies the types of business that will be permitted in this area. Nail Salons and pawn shops, for example, are not businesses that are specified in the overlay lay. The county government can only do so much --- which is put into place tools such as the overlay, enterprise zones and possible tax increment financing. It takes the property owners to decide when and where they are going to develop. Again, the guidelines for the types of development that is needed and wanted by the community is in place (the I-20 Overlay District), it needs only for the property owners to begin submit their designs for development.
Who are some of the developers that have expressed an interest in Wesley Chapel?
See above
This is where we can help. Some South Dekalb residents may not take pride in new establishments as much as our northern counterparts may. But that does not mean that we do not want the best quality. Just south of the I-20 corridor, toward River Rd. live some of the most affluent South Dekalb residents. It is a fact that South Dekalb residents want the best. The examples I gave of a “P.F. Chang’s” or a “Whole Foods Market” are examples of what residents specifically said they would like in that area. Of course, the businesses wouldn’t just stand alone. Those establishments would be a central hub for other surrounding new and existing businesses. A “Moe’s”, a “Doc Green’s”, an “EB Games”, a “Barnes and Noble”, a “Noodles”, a “Kohl’s”, a quality spa, a reputable health club, and an upscale hair salon are all examples of what would greatly boost the economy in the area and help shake the stigma the public has of South Dekalb.
Think about the developments taking place in the Camp Creek, College Park, Union City and Fairburn Areas, (which are also predominantly African-American populations). Think about “The Forum” on Peachtree Pkwy in Norcross. Think about the plaza on Caroline Street off Moreland Ave. Think about the plaza on the corner of Sidney Marcus and Piedmont Rd. Think about the smaller shops in Atlantic Station. There are also a wealth of “quality” independently owned businesses such as “Fellini’s” and “The Flying Biscuit”. I’m sure one could find minority-owned businesses of the same caliber if that is a concern.
Our organization can take steps to make sure that these types of businesses continuously uphold a high standard of excellence. The people will definitely frequent these places if they were only available. Once we start treating the area like a first class area, people will start viewing and treating it like a first class area as well – and that’s when the cycle of positive economic growth takes effect. Advancement in the area will never happen if we do not invest in the type of establishments that ALL people would like to frequent, not just lower to middle income residents. Additionally, these quality establishments provide better employment opportunities for those lower to middle income residents. After all, what is yet another hot wing stand, nail salon, beauty supply store, Chinese take-out spot, and affordable housing unit really doing to genuinely improve economic development of South Dekalb? Considering gas prices, where will the workforce housing residents work?
The county can only create and encourage the environment for businesses to come. Communities can become involved by contacting these companies to let them know that there is a market for their goods and services here in DeKalb. Our Economic Development Department continuously presents sites in the South DeKalb area to retailers. One of the major factors which the county can only work to help alleviate that deters businesses from locating in the south end is the litter. The Litter Patrol, an initiative that Commissioner Johnson recommended, does routinely patrol the major thoroughfares in DeKalb removing litter (trash thrown from passing cars, and dropped by people walking) and illegally placed signs in the Right-of-Way (ROW) as well as on utility poles. Unfortunately, as soon as they make a sweep through the area, it gets littered again. The county can only provide the manpower and the educational resources to help change the mindset of some people and bring awareness that litter is an economic deterrent, but it would certainly be most helpful to gain as much assistance from the community as possible in this effort. Workforce housing at this point is voluntary but developers who build residential units, whether it is single-family dwellings or multi-family units (condos/town homes) are encouraged to include in their developments units that the everyday workforce (teachers, police, firefighters, sales clerks, etc.) can afford. Workforce housing is not subsidized housing, it is affordably-priced housing a mixed-income development. The goal is to create ‘hubs’ or ‘activity centers’ the various exchanges along the I-20 corridor would have higher density commercial immediately adjacent to the interstate and as you move away from the interstate, the density would become less intense. This would allow for the development of walkable centers --- residents in the area would be able to walk to the commercial centers from their communities and persons traveling via I-20 would only have to get off the interstate and then get back on, without having additional traffic through the neighborhood.
Who is the old Wal-Mart site under contract with?
It is with an educational facility (at the present time that is the only information we can give out until the project is far enough along in the process).
Thank you very much for your input, time, and patience.
At no time should it be construed that residents in South DeKalb do not deserve the same quality of retail establishments as are located in other areas. The commercial development that takes place in the north end of the county takes place with incentives that are in place for the entire county. Individual retailers and developers choose not to come to the south side --- because of ‘real reason’ or perceived reasons. Again, the government and your elected officials can only create the environment for development (incentives and other development tools). Community involvement, as stated with contacting the companies you’d like to see in the area can only serve to help. As long and people are driving to Perimeter, Northlake or the Mall of Georgia, there is no incentive for them to locate their businesses where the people are. As you are aware, whenever you shop at some stores, they ask for your zip code, they are doing a demographic study themselves to see where their customer base is located. They have the numbers that 30034, 30035, 30032, etc., drives several miles to shop at their store, so they are aware that the market is here and can support their expanding/locating a business in the area.
You reference Camp Creek and developments in that end of the metro Atlanta area --- you should keep in mind that a lot of these developments were able to be brought about because of some government assistance – (Tax Allocation District was the key factor in the Camp Creek Development – both the county and school board in Fulton County/East Point voted to approve the Tax Allocation District [TAD]). DeKalb County has proposed two TADs (along Columbia Drive and along Memorial Drive --- the school board did not sign on to these --- for an effective and successful TAD the school board – who has the largest share of the tax dollar – must participate) and since the two that are already in place have not gotten the school board’s support, a TAD, although it would be ideal for the Wesley Chapel corridor, there is no point in proposing a TAD for the area when two TADs are currently unsupported by the school board.
The other factor that helped the Camp Creek development is that it was undeveloped land. Costs for tear-down are astronomical so unless there is going to be a large-scale assemblage of tracts that would in effect be a development of regional impact, the costs associated with small-scale tear downs and re-development may not be a possibility in the area. Retrofitting existing sites to accommodate new retail can always be done --- the key is to get the property owners and the potential retailers/developers together.
The property owners/developers with whom he is in contact is: Orkin – who owns the property adjacent to I20 and ‘in front of’ the Omega Center on Snapfinger; The Shopping Center Group who manages some of the shopping centers that would be prime sites for developments. The economic vision is for mixed use development which is why Commissioner Johnson has successfully pushed for and had adopted the I-20 Overlay District which extends along the I-20 Corridor and outward to include the commercial properties adjacent to I-20. What the overlay does is establish the standards for building design as well as specifies the types of business that will be permitted in this area. Nail Salons and pawn shops, for example, are not businesses that are specified in the overlay lay. The county government can only do so much --- which is put into place tools such as the overlay, enterprise zones and possible tax increment financing. It takes the property owners to decide when and where they are going to develop. Again, the guidelines for the types of development that is needed and wanted by the community is in place (the I-20 Overlay District), it needs only for the property owners to begin submit their designs for development.
Who are some of the developers that have expressed an interest in Wesley Chapel?
See above
This is where we can help. Some South Dekalb residents may not take pride in new establishments as much as our northern counterparts may. But that does not mean that we do not want the best quality. Just south of the I-20 corridor, toward River Rd. live some of the most affluent South Dekalb residents. It is a fact that South Dekalb residents want the best. The examples I gave of a “P.F. Chang’s” or a “Whole Foods Market” are examples of what residents specifically said they would like in that area. Of course, the businesses wouldn’t just stand alone. Those establishments would be a central hub for other surrounding new and existing businesses. A “Moe’s”, a “Doc Green’s”, an “EB Games”, a “Barnes and Noble”, a “Noodles”, a “Kohl’s”, a quality spa, a reputable health club, and an upscale hair salon are all examples of what would greatly boost the economy in the area and help shake the stigma the public has of South Dekalb.
Think about the developments taking place in the Camp Creek, College Park, Union City and Fairburn Areas, (which are also predominantly African-American populations). Think about “The Forum” on Peachtree Pkwy in Norcross. Think about the plaza on Caroline Street off Moreland Ave. Think about the plaza on the corner of Sidney Marcus and Piedmont Rd. Think about the smaller shops in Atlantic Station. There are also a wealth of “quality” independently owned businesses such as “Fellini’s” and “The Flying Biscuit”. I’m sure one could find minority-owned businesses of the same caliber if that is a concern.
Our organization can take steps to make sure that these types of businesses continuously uphold a high standard of excellence. The people will definitely frequent these places if they were only available. Once we start treating the area like a first class area, people will start viewing and treating it like a first class area as well – and that’s when the cycle of positive economic growth takes effect. Advancement in the area will never happen if we do not invest in the type of establishments that ALL people would like to frequent, not just lower to middle income residents. Additionally, these quality establishments provide better employment opportunities for those lower to middle income residents. After all, what is yet another hot wing stand, nail salon, beauty supply store, Chinese take-out spot, and affordable housing unit really doing to genuinely improve economic development of South Dekalb? Considering gas prices, where will the workforce housing residents work?
The county can only create and encourage the environment for businesses to come. Communities can become involved by contacting these companies to let them know that there is a market for their goods and services here in DeKalb. Our Economic Development Department continuously presents sites in the South DeKalb area to retailers. One of the major factors which the county can only work to help alleviate that deters businesses from locating in the south end is the litter. The Litter Patrol, an initiative that Commissioner Johnson recommended, does routinely patrol the major thoroughfares in DeKalb removing litter (trash thrown from passing cars, and dropped by people walking) and illegally placed signs in the Right-of-Way (ROW) as well as on utility poles. Unfortunately, as soon as they make a sweep through the area, it gets littered again. The county can only provide the manpower and the educational resources to help change the mindset of some people and bring awareness that litter is an economic deterrent, but it would certainly be most helpful to gain as much assistance from the community as possible in this effort. Workforce housing at this point is voluntary but developers who build residential units, whether it is single-family dwellings or multi-family units (condos/town homes) are encouraged to include in their developments units that the everyday workforce (teachers, police, firefighters, sales clerks, etc.) can afford. Workforce housing is not subsidized housing, it is affordably-priced housing a mixed-income development. The goal is to create ‘hubs’ or ‘activity centers’ the various exchanges along the I-20 corridor would have higher density commercial immediately adjacent to the interstate and as you move away from the interstate, the density would become less intense. This would allow for the development of walkable centers --- residents in the area would be able to walk to the commercial centers from their communities and persons traveling via I-20 would only have to get off the interstate and then get back on, without having additional traffic through the neighborhood.
Who is the old Wal-Mart site under contract with?
It is with an educational facility (at the present time that is the only information we can give out until the project is far enough along in the process).
Thank you very much for your input, time, and patience.
At no time should it be construed that residents in South DeKalb do not deserve the same quality of retail establishments as are located in other areas. The commercial development that takes place in the north end of the county takes place with incentives that are in place for the entire county. Individual retailers and developers choose not to come to the south side --- because of ‘real reason’ or perceived reasons. Again, the government and your elected officials can only create the environment for development (incentives and other development tools). Community involvement, as stated with contacting the companies you’d like to see in the area can only serve to help. As long and people are driving to Perimeter, Northlake or the Mall of Georgia, there is no incentive for them to locate their businesses where the people are. As you are aware, whenever you shop at some stores, they ask for your zip code, they are doing a demographic study themselves to see where their customer base is located. They have the numbers that 30034, 30035, 30032, etc., drives several miles to shop at their store, so they are aware that the market is here and can support their expanding/locating a business in the area.
You reference Camp Creek and developments in that end of the metro Atlanta area --- you should keep in mind that a lot of these developments were able to be brought about because of some government assistance – (Tax Allocation District was the key factor in the Camp Creek Development – both the county and school board in Fulton County/East Point voted to approve the Tax Allocation District [TAD]). DeKalb County has proposed two TADs (along Columbia Drive and along Memorial Drive --- the school board did not sign on to these --- for an effective and successful TAD the school board – who has the largest share of the tax dollar – must participate) and since the two that are already in place have not gotten the school board’s support, a TAD, although it would be ideal for the Wesley Chapel corridor, there is no point in proposing a TAD for the area when two TADs are currently unsupported by the school board.
The other factor that helped the Camp Creek development is that it was undeveloped land. Costs for tear-down are astronomical so unless there is going to be a large-scale assemblage of tracts that would in effect be a development of regional impact, the costs associated with small-scale tear downs and re-development may not be a possibility in the area. Retrofitting existing sites to accommodate new retail can always be done --- the key is to get the property owners and the potential retailers/developers together.
Larry Johnson Reply (Part 1)
Below is the response from the Office of Commissioner Larry Johnson Regarding the previous post:
Since taking office, Commissioner Johnson has taken many steps towards helping to revitalize the Wesley Chapel area which is in District 3; Covington Highway at Panola is in District 5 – Commissioner Lee May
Commissioner Johnson began by pulling the business owners and property owners in the Wesley Chapel Corridor together to develop an economic development vision. Without the input and participation of the individuals who own the property plans can be made but cannot be implemented without them. In addition to this, he has securing funding to assist the business community and the residential community to come together in order to build on this visioning process. He has arranged for a developers tour of the area to match property owners with developers (mixed-used developers) to begin a dialogue with the end result of getting some construction projects started.
The widening of Wesley Chapel, unfortunately, contributed to a lot of the existing businesses’ demise, but now that the construction is over an the traffic congestion that was a way of life is no more. The Wesley Chapel area is again on the rise. Part of the this rise is that in addition to participation by the property owners in any development plan, incentives have to be in place for developers to come. Our Economic Development Department has an array of incentives that developers can take advantage of in addition; Commissioner Johnson has helped to develop the I-20 Corridor Overlay District. This development tool will assist developers in coming into the area because the standards and requirements that the business community and residential community have developed are in place, spelled out and the overlay also makes it more cost effective to get permits, etc.
Commissioner Johnson has met with several interested developers who have expressed an interest in the Wesley Chapel.
The other part of this equation is that support from the community is essential in keeping businesses open; holding the businesses there accountable --- as in ensuring that merchandise is top quality, the condition of the store is kept at maximum standard, customer service is excellent, etc. Unfortunately, in most cases when these items are lacking, rather than the community holding the business accountable, the community continues to shop at the store with the substandard practices or goes elsewhere --- again, all without voicing their concerns to the owner.
But back to economic development, steps are being undertaken to secure high end retail development in the area. Redevelopment of the area will be at the behest of the property owners who have sites that are attractive to developers.
If you have any specific recommendations for sites: The old Wal-Mart site is under contract, FYI; but if there are other areas in the Wesley Chapel area where you are aware that the property owner is willing to talk with developers our Economic Development Department will be happy to facilitate a meeting with the goal of putting a package together.
Economic Development in South Dekalb
Several years ago, the corner of Covington Hwy and Panola Rd. was a hub of economic commerce. There was a thriving movie theater, a grocery store, a video game arcade, various small restaurants, a drug store, a reputable music store, etc. Now it contains a Big Lots, a liquor store, an abandoned theater, a defunct lingerie store, a dry-cleaners, a few small restaurants, and a Dekalb County Police Dept. mini-station.
Similarly, the corner of Wesley Chapel (once called “Decatur’s Best Kept Secret”) and S. Hairston used to bustle with at least ten different businesses with Wal-Mart as the plaza’s hub. Now, there is none except one or two. The shell of the plaza is now nothing more than an empty eyesore.
What happened? More importantly, how can this be fixed? What can be done to convince real business to invest in South Dekalb County besides the Stonecrest Mall area? With the influx of residents moving closer to the city and markedly farther from the city, without economic development, the nearer suburbs along the I-285 corridor are left to suffer and become havens of suburban blight. Think about Glenwood from I-285 to Covington Hwy. Think about Covington Hwy from I-285 to Panola Rd. Think about Wesley Chapel from I-20 to S. Hairston and to Snapfinger Rd. What happened to the plans outlined in the following link?
ULI - the Urban Land Institute | A Green Light for Wesley Chapel?
My wife and I often have to travel into the City of Atlanta or the City of Decatur for basic needs and recreation. We drive from the unincorporated Lithonia/Decatur area all the way to Briarcliff or Ponce De Leon to get groceries from Return to Eden or the Whole Foods Market. We have to go all the way to Moreland Ave. to go to Barnes and Noble. When we want to go to a nice, moderately priced restaurant (besides the Olive Garden, Ruby Tuesday, Applebee’s type of chains by Stonecrest), the nearest decent places are in Downtown Decatur. We have to travel 15 to 20 miles just to get to a Moe’s or a Willy’s.
Is it that investors don’t think minorities would frequent a Whole Foods? It is important to note that pockets of South Dekalb County are the second most affluent African-American populations in the United States. Why not take advantage of this untapped demographic. Do investors (even minority investors) think that all minorities want is Hot Wing stands, Beauty Supply stores, and Fast Food restaurants? Collections of “mom-and-pop” stores don’t necessarily increase property value nor provide a wealth of employment opportunities. The only business of the kind that has been successful is “Davido’s 3.75 Pizza” and “This Is It” (both are either fast food or "soul food" marketed toward the black community). Except, the aforementioned, many other small businesses end up becoming eyesores unless there is a central hub anchoring the smaller businesses (and attracting more customers).
Imagine if the Wesley Chapel/S. Hairston intersection contained a live/work/play community like the Edgewood Retail District on Caroline St. Imagine if the corner of Panola and Covington had a Whole Foods Market with space for successful preexisting businesses. Imagine if there was a Barnes and Noble live/work/play/community on Covington Hwy between Panola Rd and I-285. Think about all the people they would employ. Think about how it would greatly boost the area’s economy. If you build it, the people definitely will come.
When I discuss economic development in South Dekalb with residents of North Dekalb and other Metro Atlanta counties, they respond like I’m living in a fairy tale when I speak of mixed-use developments like the plaza in East Atlanta, real restaurants that aren't just soul food, hot wing, and fast food-type places, or a good "Whole Foods" type grocery store like the ones that are in almost every other area of Atlanta except the ones that are predominantly African-American.
When will I be able to go to a good Thai restaurant on Covington Hwy, or to a "Noodles" or "P.F. Chang's" in Wesley Chapel, or even a "Moe's" or "Willy's" on Snapfinger? Why are people so scared to put new, better quality establishments in established predominantly black communities? We live in a working class community and our residents want the same quality establishments that are in North Dekalb, Fulton, Cobb, and Gwinnett counties. Instead, "Zaxby's" and "Taco Bell/KFC" goes up every few blocks. If Lithonia has so much wealth (which I know it does), why doesn't anyone make quality investments in this untapped resource? They could reap huge profits (and provide major employment opportunities for residents).
Think about areas “around” the City of Atlanta that are relatively pleasant places to live (in which property values and economic development are steadily increasing rather than faltering). Areas such as Marietta, Norcross, Roswell, Sandy Springs, Union City, and Fairburn. We’d be pleased if the quality of life in our area was at least on par with North Dekalb. We know South Dekalb is notoriously underserved, but when will we take steps to change that?
I work in the Dekalb County School System and most of my colleagues strongly agree with these points. In fact, many have moved to Rockdale and South Fulton counties because of these issues (even though they work in South Dekalb County). What can be done or what is currently being planned to address these issues? I hear Dekalb County representatives talk about “workforce housing”, but what is being done to provide a wealth of employment opportunities, businesses, and superior establishments for the residents and that attract people of all walks life to South Dekalb County?
Welcome!
Welcome to the South Dekalb Community Improvement forum! This site is dedicated to allowing parents, teachers, advocates, and residents of South Dekalb County to actively unite and engage each other in order to share ideas and opinions that would initiate positive change for South Dekalb County. We focus on all issues involving schools and education, residential communities, and economic development. We ultimately promote working as a collective to enforce and support the success of all Dekalb County public schools, neighborhoods, and residents that are predominantly in Lithonia, Decatur, Stone Mountain, Ellenwood, Clarkston, and Southeast Atlanta. In other areas of Dekalb, civic groups and community leaders ensure that their community and the culture of their community are continuously advancing. Who is going to do that for us? It is up to only us to protect, educate, and obtain the very best for our children. Regardless of your income, your neighborhood, your status, your age, or how busy you may be with your own responsibilities, it’s time for each and every one of us to get together and take South Dekalb County to the next level - because the fact is, no one will do it for us. This forum is where we start. Again, welcome. You may be the ones to start the movement of turning South Dekalb County into the envy of Metropolitan Atlanta. Thank You!
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